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JIMMY MOYAHA: Makhanda High Court recently compelled the police to provide police escorts to Intercape buses. I’m joined on the line by the CEO of Intercape, Johann Ferreira. Good evening, Johann. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat to us. Before we sort of get into the ‘nitty-gritties’, how significant is the recent ruling? How bad did the situation have to get for Intercape to seek interim relief from the courts? You guys had requested assistance as far back as last year, if I’m not mistaken. Was it just a situation where you weren’t assisted in this plight?
JOHANN FERREIRA: I think it’s twofold. In the first instance, obviously the police are not adhering to the court order, where the judge accepted the plan of the National Minister of Transport and the MEC of Transport [in] the Eastern Cape to safeguard the passage of the Intercape coaches through their hotspot areas in the Eastern Cape. I think, secondly it is high time that the police are being forced to do their job, and I think this is what the judge is trying to do at this point in time.
JIMMY MOYAHA: Now, for Intercape as a business, I want to get an understanding of how this has impacted the business. We can talk about the financial impact and all of that, but obviously the overriding concern is the safety of your drivers, the safety of your passengers, the secondary safety of your vehicles and your buses, and that sort of thing. But what has been the extent of the impact, and the damage, and the risk that you guys have had to contend with as a result of these unsafe conditions?
JOHANN FERREIRA: Look, it’s a situation that we face every day and every night, seven days of the week. This has been ongoing for close to two years now with no end in sight.
I also think this is a situation that all South Africans are facing across a broad South Africa. It’s not just an Intercape thing. This is now being labelled and named and highlighted, and it gets a lot of airtime and attention, but South Africa is an unsafe place, and the police are turning around and saying ‘Well, it’s not our problem – it’s not because of us that South Africa has become an unsafe place’.
But if you look at the facts, no arrests are being made and the police are thinking up every and any excuse not to make arrests – resources [or] ‘We can’t seem to be preferential to Intercape’ – which is a lot of nonsense.
If that’s the argument then nobody will get arrested in South Africa because the other part will say ‘Why did you arrest that person on that complaint or charge? Why not mine?’.
So I think the police are finding themselves in a very, very difficult situation which they are the cause of. They painted themselves into a corner, and I think the judge and many South Africans have just come to a point where they don’t accept this anymore.
JIMMY MOYAHA: You mentioned that this is obviously a bigger problem than just a problem that affects Intercape. I wonder, in terms of Intercape’s operations, if it’s something that you’re experiencing more, or is it isolated to the Eastern Cape, or is it something that is affecting other routes?
JOHANN FERREIRA: It is specific to the Eastern Cape, specific to the hotspot areas which we’ve identified, Tsomo, Idutuywa … Butterworth and so on. So it is limited to the Eastern Cape.
JIMMY MOYAHA: Johann, what does that then mean for the considerations? Obviously as a business you have to make some difficult decisions, decisions you are not very comfortable wanting to even consider. Is this something where you are put in a position where you might even have to consider cancelling certain routes? Has it got to that point where the situation is in such dire straits that you have to look at that as an option?
JOHANN FERREIRA: No, that is not an option for us. If we accept that as an option we then have to accept that we have to literally close down the business and exit South Africa as a citizen, also as an employer and as an investor. I don’t believe that is an option. I don’t believe that is the remedy.
The remedy is for South Africa to get back on track, for government to accept their responsibility.
They have the power to arrest and to put people in jail and we will use every means to hold them accountable, and we are going to climb the ladder of justice. We will end up eventually in the Constitutional Court. I can see that coming.
We are prepared for it, and we are in it for the long haul. This is not hit-and-run. This is not throw a stone and then the bus will disappear. We are here to stay. We’ve been in business for 40 years and we are here to make a difference and to set a precedent in terms of the legal findings.
JIMMY MOYAHA: And to that end the action plan that was developed – is it an action plan that at this stage is still implementable to address the concerns? You mentioned that it’s time that certain stakeholders do their part to ensure the safety of all citizens, not just the users of Intercape Transport Services. But then is the action plan that was developed to resolve this still a relevant or apt measure to address the concerns?
JOHANN FERREIRA: The plan that was developed was a plan that was developed and accepted by the National Minister of Transport and also the MEC of Transport of the Eastern Cape.
Now we, as Intercape, tabled on November 11 an extensive action plan which was ignored – refused by the government. They implemented a very watered-down plan which we said was not going to work. But we weren’t in a position to enforce, let’s call it, the ‘Intercape safety plan’.
Six months down the line – with ongoing facts, police not being visible, not escorting the coaches, no arrests – we’ve now proved to the court that we were right. And, in fact, even the little that the government has put on the table, they’ve not even adhered to their own plan.
So it’s pretty much a pupil gets hauled to the headmaster’s class – in this instance a judge – to be told ‘Please, do your homework, do your job for a change’.
Now we’ve gone beyond that, where the judge has given them until June 14 to come and tell him why the Intercape plan cannot be put in place. So they have to come and explain what is wrong with the plan and if resources is the cause of the problem, then he wants to know what you are doing with the current resources, and what have you’ve asked for? Have you asked for more infrastructure, boots on the ground, vehicles?
I think the judge is working towards a point where he wants to give a court order for the Intercape plan to be implemented, to force the police to put more boots on the ground, more vehicles, and to restore law and order.
This is not just an Intercape thing. This is systemic to South Africa, and I don’t think a lot of people have taken on government and taken on the police in the way we’ve done it. It is now round number four and again we’ve won it. In round five we will also win with costs.
So it’s becoming a very expensive exercise for government, wasting taxpayers’ money.
And they’re playing a very dangerous game because they’re thinking [up] any and all excuses. They’re not fighting it on merit. They’re there to raise technical points in limine, and it’s getting them nowhere. They’re not going to get away with technical points.
We are here to argue the merits of the issue. I think that’s where they fall short.
JIMMY MOYAHA: I think the clear message is that the safety of South Africans and commuters at large is paramount, and at this stage we need more to be done. It seems as though the courts are willing to assist wherever they can to ensure that this happens.
But thanks so much, Johann. That was Johann Ferreira, who is the CEO of Intercape, just giving us a sense of the latest court ruling in their favour, ruling that the police must escort their buses in the province of the Eastern Cape.
