You can also listen to this podcast on iono.fm here.
Welcome to The Property Pod, South Africa’s premier property investor podcast. On this weekly show we gain insider insights from leading property industry CEOs, directors, analysts, developers, and entrepreneurs.
We are profiling top women execs in the property sector on the pod this month as August is Women’s Month.
SA’s listed and unlisted property industry has several women executives, and it seems to be ahead of other sectors in terms of transformation.
Our guest on the pod this week is someone who has been in the industry for quite a while, and last year she took on two high-profile roles in the sector – firstly as CEO of Cape Town-headquartered Old Mutual Property, and she also became president of industry organisation the South African Council of Shopping Centres [SACSC].
She is Sakina Nosarka, and on the pod she talks about her growth in the industry and what’s happening in the Old Mutual Property portfolio.
Highlights of her interview appear below. You can also listen to the full podcast above or download it from iono.fm, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Cavendish Square, Old Mutual Property’s main retail asset in the Western Cape. Image: Supplied
Highlights
This past year has been a big one for you, being appointed CEO of Old Mutual Property, and also being elected to the SACSC, as mentioned earlier. How has it been in the hot seat?
“It has been incredible and rewarding and energising. For me obviously there are lots of lessons and interesting experiences, but I’ve had to work extremely hard and smartly, and it’s pushed me to be courageous and outspoken. I hope that my passion for this business as well as the sector energises the people around me. I know and appreciate that opportunities like this don’t come around often. It does, however, showcase your ability on how strong you are as an individual and what kind of impactful leader you can be.”
“I guess thanks to this hot seat I’ve been fortunate enough to meet incredible and inspiring individuals who have subsequently become some of my biggest cheerleaders. I’ve engaged in meaningful conversations, as well as teaming up with people to find innovative solutions and create opportunities for people who are still on their journey.”
Give us some of your background. Why property? Have you always been in the industry?
“Yes, I have. I’ve always been in property. I graduated with a UCT degree in BSc Honours in Property Studies. I was one of the first graduates with this degree, and I thought the best way to start was to hone my technical skills. I became a professional valuer through Old Mutual, which was my first job.”
“Then I moved to Investec and worked in their private bank division, and ultimately returned to Old Mutual where I spent time as an analyst, then an asset manager.
“Then I was the head of retail and finally the CEO [of Old Mutual Properties].”
“What’s attracted me to the sector is that it required not only analytical skills, but design and problem-solving capabilities. I guess I was completely sold when I realised, walking around a shopping centre, [that] learning about local and international brands could be a full-time job. It was very cool.”
“I knew that I would be faced with myriad challenges entering this male-centric industry, but it was the push I needed to remind myself that with hard work [and] determination I could navigate my way through any barriers.”
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August is Women’s Month … It may seem a bit cliché to ask, but as a woman in the corporate world do you still face challenges and have you faced challenges in moving up the corporate ladder in the industry?
“Yes, I am the first female CEO at Old Mutual Properties, and there’s still a way to go. I had an interesting stat the other day – that women representation on the JSE is around 20%, while we represent about 50% of the workforce. It just boggles my mind because for a successful board to operate it’s important that you have diversity and inclusion …”
“Over the last 20 years there’s been a significant improvement and I hope – maybe naïvely – in the next 20 years we’ll get to a time where conversation about inclusivity and gender transformation is a thing of the past, and we are playing on a 100% level field, and it’s unbiased.”
“I’ve been incredibly lucky in that Old Mutual embeds inclusivity in its corporate culture.”
“At Old Mutual Properties we are striving to have an executive team that’s 50% female, and our OMP board is 50% represented by women.”
“As the first woman to graduate from UCT with a degree in Property Studies I’ve been breaking down walls for years, and I’ve been fortunate to work alongside incredible individuals in the industry, both male and female, who have been phenomenal mentors and allies. I think that’s what’s fundamental to changing this mindset.”
“In an industry that is male-centric and is still perceived as one, I hope through my role I have a place to ensure that the next generation of young women whom we see come through own and embrace it. The potential is incredible in this industry, it’s rewarding and those consequences will be far reaching.”
Tell us about your CEO role. What do you want to achieve both at Old Mutual and also in your role as president of the SA Council of Shopping Centres?
“Our portfolio has evolved significantly over the past decade, and it’s not a purely SA-focused fund any longer. We used to be 85% SA retail, and that’s changed to a more sector and geographically diversified fund. We [Old Mutual Properties] are at about R24 billion at the moment, half of which is still high-quality retail assets … like Gateway, Cavendish, and The Zone.”
“We also had a deliberate strategy to reduce our exposure to SA offices, because it’s been plagued with oversupply and poor fundamentals – and the hybrid work-from-home trends that were born out of the pandemic.”
“Fortunately, the shift to diversify exposure and partner with strategic partners has enabled us to be beneficiaries of a strong tailwind and positive fundamentals in the industrial space.”
“That’s about 15% of our portfolio. It’s growing and it’s a mix of well-located logistic assets and warehouses. And then, most notably, the change was we have about a 25% exposure to an offshore business, and that has performed phenomenally well over the past several years, delivering good total returns both in local currency and [SA rands].”
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“I guess as the CEO I’m tasked with ensuring the company’s strategic objectives are met, along with providing our shareholders with their mandated returns. But for me personally, the most important thing is leading with heart, and ensuring a company and culture that supports growth for our teams to succeed and flourish.”
“On the SA Council [of Shopping Centres] presidency, I have a year to go and the intent for the council is to create a platform for both owners and retailers’ collaboration.”
“My role in that would be to ensure that we strengthen our relationship with other industry bodies, explore synergies, and offer market insights. And the most exciting [thing] for me that we are embarking on is implementing a mentorship programme because that I think will fundamentally change the access people have to strategic individuals and professional growth in the sector.”
Can you give us further detail about the group’s offshore property portfolio and an update on local investments and upgrades?
“We are invested in Eastern Europe – in Bulgaria and Romania specifically. It’s about 25% of our portfolio. And we own office assets with big national tenants like Deloitte and Oracle as our key tenants.”
“We are looking to grow that portfolio in the logistics space. That will happen in the next 12 to 18 months …”
“In our business we definitely see the benefits of being unlisted when you’re not subject to the [vagaries] of the equity market volatility and market sentiment. So we like being unlisted. I think we’ll continue to be unlisted.”
“Over the long term, direct property returns have proven to deliver stable and consistent returns, and there’s low correlation to equities, which many investors or shareholders may find advantageous in our diversified portfolio.:
An office building in Oregan, Bulgaria, owned by Old Mutual Property. Image: Supplied
“I guess from our perspective you’ve got macro headwinds in load shedding, which impacts both landlords and retailers.
“Our portfolio’s performing well despite that, and it’s largely due to the diversified nature of our portfolio and the fact that we’ve got offshore exposure. I guess on the SA side what we attribute the good performance [to] is that we’ve continually reinvested in our assets.”
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“As you mentioned, Gateway is 21. It was 21 last year, and we’re investing hundreds of millions of rands into an upgrade. Cavendish turned 50 last year – we had many birthdays last year – as well as Vincent Park. That is also currently [in] phase two of a redevelopment plan.”
“And we are investing in the redevelopment of Dreyer Street, which people may not be aware of, but it’s the little street between Cavendish Square and Connect – and that supports micro enterprises and independent traders so they can co-exist in kind of our Cavendish area.”
Atterbury partnership
“I guess from our perspective the push is towards our offshore and our industrial businesses. We have a strategic partnership with Atterbury, so we will be kind of focusing on those two sectors predominantly. And again, we will ensure organic growth in our retail [portfolio] and then invest in projects that make sense.”
“So you’ll continually see things changing in our shopping centres to ensure that we remain relevant and that our customer experience is a good one.”
It’s interesting – what you mentioned regarding your partnership with Atterbury in recent years. For those who have long memories, Old Mutual were once punting a mega mall in Midrand and Atterbury usurped that project. Old Mutual’s project was on a massive piece of land near the Gautrain Midrand Station – dubbed Zonk’Izizwe at the time, and that never took off. Now you are partnering [with] Atterbury on industrial properties. Perhaps you want to share a little insight on some of those developments that you are partnering Atterbury on?
“Strategic partnerships are important in our business, locally and offshore. So we’ve got both in SA and offshore. Having local knowledge and skill enhances our proposition to our shareholders. So that’s why we partner with people that can kind of offer that to our business.”
“I guess we’ve had a key and successful relationship with Atterbury, and we will continue to develop modernised and well-located industrial units in both Gauteng and the Western Cape alongside them.”
“We are very happy with that relationship and you’ll see them – Old Mint is one. We’ve done Richmond, we’ve done King Air [Industria].”
“We have some very strategic partnerships with companies that have expanded their operations in those developments. So for us that’s a key relationship and we’ll have many more of them.”
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Listen to the full episode here.
