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JEREMY MAGGS: The latest Commission for Employment Equity (CEE) report says very bluntly, the transformation in the country continues to disappoint, showing a slow picture of transformation. Tabea Kabinde is chairperson of the Commission and is with us now. So firstly, what does the picture look like at the moment?
TABEA KABINDE: The picture looks as the trend and trajectory over the years remains the same. On average, what we are finding is that at top and senior management level, we are seeing a movement of 1% in favour of the designated groups together. That means by race, black people are sharing a 1% increase amongst themselves.
The same is with gender, transformation remains quite slow.
Also, in terms of disability, it just remains as disappointing. Currently in terms of disability, we’re sitting with 1.2% of persons with disability in the workplace. So the statistics are really disheartening.
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JEREMY MAGGS: Are there specific areas or sectors where the slow pace of transformation is most evident?
TABEA KABINDE: At this stage, I wouldn’t be able to give that off the top of my head, but I would need to go back and look, there are 18 sectors, so I would need to do a comparison, which I haven’t done in great detail to give you that kind of information.
But we know that mostly where we find that there is quite an increase, which is quite comfortable, would be in spaces such as the entertainment sector we see a good shift over the years. We’ve also seen in the water sector, water and supply services, we’ve seen quite a good movement. But generally, most sectors seem to be moving quite slow and are quite discouraging.
JEREMY MAGGS: So what do you believe is the reason for the pace being so slow?
TABEA KABINDE: The reasons are many, the biggest reason is the one that led to us wanting to change the principles around employment equity, where we said to ourselves that self-regulation is not working that well for us, and as a result (we) have embarked on the process of sector targets, which has led to the Amendment Act 2022, and we are waiting for the implementation date on that.
That for us is the biggest reason, where we’re saying we pick up that there’s resistance from employers to make the necessary change…
Therefore, we would like to push transformation in the right direction. So one of the biggest reasons is resistance from employers.
Skills development
Secondly, there is the narrative that there isn’t a large skilled pool in the areas where we have scarce skills. Our attitude as a Commission is the fact that when employers know that they have scarce skills in a particular field, part of the requirements of the Act is that they would embark on skills development to ensure that they can develop a pool for themselves from which they can draw. But that is not happening.
What we see more of is a tendency just to go around poaching candidates from different competitors, as opposed to creating a pool that can sustain that particular organisation.
So in my mind, those are the two primary reasons.
I think as a country, we haven’t had a serious discussion and debate around how we feel honestly about transformation and confronted our own stereotypes and our own fears around this particular matter, and we just tend to gloss over that, which is, for me, a huge issue.
JEREMY MAGGS: Do you think that positions within business are becoming more entrenched in this regard?
TABEA KABINDE: Yes, I do feel so. I do believe that we are picking up, especially with the current Amendment Act, we are finding that the noise that we are hearing is creating and almost giving impetus to a new kind of resistance…
This is really based on fearmongering, as opposed to the real facts of what the act is about.
What that is tending to do is to create almost a rigidity and a resolve to be resistant towards the change. Part of our decision as a Commission is that we are going to go into a phase where we are going to run campaigns where we share information and we address people’s issues around the concerns that they might have, and we debunk some of the myths that exist because we realise that there is almost a need to push people into a position where they don’t want this or they feel too afraid to do anything that is pro transformation.
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JEREMY MAGGS: What does the Commission say to the argument that business might put forward is that it’s a case of economic survival right now versus transformation, and the former is going to win?
TABEA KABINDE: That debate is a debate that requires a lot of discussion because for me, when one says transformation should be pitted against economic survival, it’s almost as if there is an underlying assumption that designated groups will not assist companies to survive.
It’s almost like saying inclusion, diversity and equality are contradictory to economic growth and prosperity of organisations and I think that couldn’t be further from the truth.
It’s making an assumption that black people, women and persons with disabilities do not have the capacity or the competencies to help organisations to succeed.
JEREMY MAGGS: So in the short term then, what needs to change to accelerate the process?
TABEA KABINDE: What needs to change first is the recognition that transformation does make business sense, that we should do more in the space of advancing and helping to skill persons from designated groups, as well as identifying people who already exist who have the competencies.
When I say that, it almost creates an impression that all black people, all women and persons with disability have something that they lack and as a result, need some kind of skilling.
I’m saying there is a pool of skilled people who just need to be put in the right seat in the bus to get the work going and to help organisations to succeed. I’m also saying that we need to interrogate our cultures as organisations because it is true that in some cases there is recruitment happening, but what then ends up happening is that the very same people who have been recruited for affirmative action purposes are leaving the organisations because there isn’t equality. People do not feel like it is a conducive culture within which to stay.
JEREMY MAGGS: Tabea Kabinde, thank you very much for joining us.
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